Traveller-digest      Friday, November 29 1996      Volume 1996 : Number 704



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: The Rebellion
VGA Planets and Traveller
Re: House Rules: Active Duty
RE: The Rebellion
Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)
Opinions, and what they're like.
Re: G-Comp
A.Friend of D&D
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #703
Re: The Rebellion
Copyright on Traveller Materials
Re: G-Comp
Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #702
Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #703
ABC's of the ABC
MegaTraveller Auction #4
Re: MegaTraveller Auction #4
Re: The Rebellion
RE: The Rebellion

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 21:17:04 -0800
From: "Rich Ostorero" <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion

> >
> 
> What I really wonder about is:
> 
> what exactly is different between the TNE setting and Meilleiu 0? 
> Essentially nothing from what I can tell. Both are settings where
humanity 
> rebuilds after a collapse into a new empire.

I disagree. While superficially M0 and TNE are similiar in that an ongoing
theme is rebuilding, the atmosphere is vastly different. In M0, the
nobility is a significant factor, with a powerful interstellar government
already in place. In TNE, there is no interstellar nobility. Even in the
Regency, the one place in the Imperium not "collapsed" by Virus, the
nobility is _on the way out the door_. A second difference lies in the time
frames of the Long Night (1700+ years) preceding M0 versus the 75-year
"Short Nap" between Viral Release and the New Era. A star nation can do a
lot of recovering in 1700 years . . . but the RC hasn't had 5% of that
amount of time. The Hiver intervention is making a big difference, though. 


> 
> So since the two settings are essentially identical, why did they bother 
> coming up with a new setting? If Mark Miller really wanted to get back to

> Classic Traveller, why didn't he set things back in 1115, or whenever.

I think MM may have wanted to do something with enough Classical flavor for
the old-guard fans, but different enough to enspire creativity.

> 
> By the way, no one is holding a gun up against your head forcing you to
use 
> the Virus. 

Or M0 as written. I don't.

>If you want a united empire under Norris

Or why not Avery?

>, JUST DO IT!

And let us know what you did! :)
> 
> K.C. Komosky
> who's now expecting a cease and decist order from Nike for violating
their 
> copyright...
> kc@mb.sympatico.ca
> 

------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 96 16:50:00 +1100
From: Michael.Barry@FINANCE.ausgovfinance.telememo.au
Subject: VGA Planets and Traveller

     A slightly off-topic (but still marginally relevant) thread:
     
     Does anybody on TML know of a Traveller variant for the outstanding 
     email game VGA Planets? I'd *love* to see this - a map based on the 
     Spinward Marches, the setting the Fifth Frontier War, beginning 
     dispositions/fleets as in the 5FW sourcebook...I just need to know if 
     it has happened! 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 01:23:18 -0500
From: Bill Rutherford <worj@topgun.cinecom.com>
Subject: Re: House Rules: Active Duty

>...Actually, during the Battle of Britain, many of the Spitfires and Hurricanes
>were flown by RAF sergeants.  The German Luftwaffe also had many enlisted
>pilots, mostly in transports and as instructors.
>

Ditto the Japanese army and naval air services... - Bill

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 00:06:56 -0600
From: "K.C. Komosky" <kc@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: RE: The Rebellion

>> what exactly is different between the TNE setting and Meilleiu 0?
>> Essentially nothing from what I can tell. Both are settings where
>humanity
>> rebuilds after a collapse into a new empire.

>I disagree. While superficially M0 and TNE are similiar in that an ongoing
>theme is rebuilding, the atmosphere is vastly different. In M0, the
>nobility is a significant factor, with a powerful interstellar government
>already in place. In TNE, there is no interstellar nobility. Even in the
>Regency, the one place in the Imperium not "collapsed" by Virus, the
>nobility is _on the way out the door_. A second difference lies in the 
time
>frames of the Long Night (1700+ years) preceding M0 versus the 75-year
>"Short Nap" between Viral Release and the New Era. A star nation can do a
>lot of recovering in 1700 years . . . but the RC hasn't had 5% of that
>amount of time. The Hiver intervention is making a big difference, though. 

Well, I (obviously) disagree. While there certainly are differences between 
the two settings, I think the differences are what is superficial, and the 
similarity overwhelming.

I don't dispute word of what you wrote, but what real difference is it 
going to make to a Traveller player? None really.


>>
>> So since the two settings are essentially identical, why did they bother 
>> coming up with a new setting? If Mark Miller really wanted to get back 
to
>> Classic Traveller, why didn't he set things back in 1115, or whenever.

FWIW, I'm glad MM didn't go back to  1115. Pretty much any of the other 
Traveller settings have a certain, oh, I don't know, a certain excitement 
to them that the original CT setting lacked. Of course, this is very, very 
IMHO.

K.C. Komosky
who's favourite setting, though not rules, was from MT
kc@mb.sympatico.ca

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:17:42 -0500
From: Rob Beck <beck@mail.all-net.net>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)

At 11:17 PM 11/28/96 -0500, you wrote:


>The Vargr are a big question mark though, but I think through a
>judiciious use of military force and diplomacy (making agreements with
>particular Vargr groups) Norris could keep the Vargr feuding amongst
>themselves and neutralize them.

Norris really has little to offer the Vargr. We're left with the impression
in Rebellion that it is all he can do to keep the corsairs out. I do agree
that with the Aslan secured as an ally, and with a quick resolution with the
Zhodani (we're not going to extend your way if you don't extend our way),
Norris could have shifted his forces more to trailward. That and the fact
that even concentrated corsair attacks are of little concern to dedicated
fleet elements clearing a path. A return of a strong military presence to
Corridor would be required, but if he had the forces...


>Norris also had an excellent Intelligence apparatus, so when the Regency
>learned that the other factions were significantly weakened, Norris
>could have led a spear head right to the core systems and with any luck
>sweep aside the other weakened factions.  I also believe that the Moot
>would look favorably at Norris, although the real power of the moot
>should not be overestimated.

I still see where he's facing a potential two-front war assuming he can get
past the Vilani. Assuming they don't stalemate with him and he does break
out into the core sectors, he then has to contend with Dulinor AND Lucan.
Both of them attacked Strephon when he laid his claim to restore the
Imperium. Why wouldn't they both attack Norris? There's just a lot to
overcome to even come close to restoring the Imperium. Even with Dulinor,
Lucan, and the Vilani weakened, Norris would be fighting a multi-front war
in devastated areas two or more sectors away from his home base. Seems like
he'd be overextending himself a little much wouldn't you say?

Rob.

                         Robert Beck
                         E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
                         Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:09:12 -0500
From: TPeterAZ@aol.com
Subject: Opinions, and what they're like.

Been away for the (Thanksgiving) holiday.  Lots has happened here on the
list, so, to avoid excessive snippage, and bandwidth clogging, I'll keep my
comments limited to a couple of subjects.  <Engange Rant Filter Now>

First, regarding the M0 vs. TNE campaigns, I never much cared for TNE,
particularly the core rules, though I rather liked FFS.  Just my opinion.  M0
certainly has more of the flavor of CT, so we'll give her a shot and see how
she holds up.  I recently was reading Tarsus again (truly outstanding
module), and was reminded of how special CT was.  TNE never seemed to have
that kind of feel, and T4/M0 is still a little rough around the (production)
edges for me to know for sure what I think.  

Second, the whole Virus/Anti-Virus thread.  I wasn't here when that was done
to death, but in fairness to all, I'll keep my thoughts on that to myself.
 (Though, if you *really* want to know, e-mail me.  I feel *strongly* about
this.)

Third, to Andy Lilly and Michael Barry (aka Bustards One & Two);  I don't
know what in the hell you two are talking about, but I laugh out loud despite
that fact.  Thank you; this *is* supposed to be fun, dammit.

Fourth, the Great (?) Horizontal/Vertical Debate;  oy vey!  I think it has
been established that regardless of the layout of the ship (I'm sorry I ever
asked), if the inertial compensators fail, and you're not strapped in, you
become the Far Future equivalent of road kill, assuming certain
accelerations.  Works for me.

Maybe, it's because it's late, and because my daughter got me up at
four-thirty this morning (teething, ugh) but I have a Royal Bug Up My Bum
(RBUMB) this evening.  So if any of this bothers anybody, sorry.  Besides,
dig what the subject of this post is called.  Goodnight, and best regards to
all.

<Rant Off>

Tim Peter
<TPeterAZ@aol.com>
"Never let your schooling get in the way of your education."--- Mark Twain

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Nov 96 21:48:19 -0500
From: eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)
Subject: Re: G-Comp

On 11/28/96 at 08:38 PM,  sam thomas <sinbad@dfw.net> said:

>Well there are some interesting points I feel need to be made.

>1. Gravitic Drives lose efficiency after 100 diameters.
>2. Thruster Plates lose efficiency after 1000 diameters.
>3. Heplar Drives never lose efficiency.

>The above is take from the "canon" interpretations. If the above three are
>"Canon" then Artificial Gravity and Inertial Compensation are derived from
>gravitic technology do they lose efficiency at 100 or 1000 diameters, I
>feel that they would lose at 100 diameters. 

Sorry, but I think you're talking apples and oranges.  

Canon has Artifical Gravity, and I-Comp, continuing to be effective at
beyond Grav-Drive ranges.  Shoot, your grav-plates continue to work in Jump
Space, and that's *way* beyond 1000 diameters!  <G> As I understand the
pseudo-theory, while grav-drives and grav-plates are both based on the
ability to control gravity the *technology* is very different.

Eris,
    a confirmed non-canonist

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
eris@pen.net (Eris Reddoch)    using MR/2 ICE #245
- -----------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 10:36:52 -0800
From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
Subject: A.Friend of D&D

For those of you, who are interested:
There is an "A Friend" writing in the AD&D newsgroups
         rec.games.frp.dnd, alt.games.frp.dnd-util

I wonder if this is the one, who thinks he has invented everything. Maybe 
he's looking out for somebody who uses the word "dragon", which he has a 
patent on, or so .... ;-)

CyA
Buddy
- -- 
# Disclaimer: All opinions stated are only MY OWN.
# Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at 
# ADV - Anwendungsentwicklung
# Graphisch Technischer Bereich

------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 1996 09:37:56 GMT
From: ajpursell@babylon.montreal.qc.ca (Alan Pursell)
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #703

Hey there,

gone south to get some sun and recover from the snow that just keeps on
coming... back next tuesday. 

see ya...

alan j

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 02:56:21 -0800
From: "Rich Ostorero" <stormhvn@inreach.com>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion

 
> Well, I (obviously) disagree. While there certainly are differences
between 
> the two settings, I think the differences are what is superficial, and
the 
> similarity overwhelming.
> 
> I don't dispute word of what you wrote, but what real difference is it 
> going to make to a Traveller player? None really.

Maybe you're right here. The fine distinctions matter most to those of us
on the TML and other rabid Trav fanatics; the players in my campaign can't
care less. 

> FWIW, I'm glad MM didn't go back to  1115. Pretty much any of the other 
> Traveller settings have a certain, oh, I don't know, a certain excitement

> to them that the original CT setting lacked. Of course, this is very,
very 
> IMHO.

I have to agree here . . . CT was too "civilized" a setting, the Imperium a
society without open frontiers to explore. The Rebellion had the charms of
an open-ended war and a ripped-up society to play with, but I couldn't
really get into "supporting" a faction the way I could root for my favorite
_BattleTech_ House or merc unit. TNE has lots and lots of room for
exploring, lots of opportunity for combat action in the name of a good
cause. M0 is a mix of the open frontiers and small government of TNE with
the organization and color of the Third Imperium.

> who's favourite setting, though not rules, was from MT

 . . . but not here. My favorite setting _and_ rules are the RC and TNE.
Basically, it was TNE that dragged my gaming life  back from a death-spiral
into the twin pits of 90s roleplaying angst: CCGs and World of
Darkness-style "Dark" games. TNE gave me hope that the dark menace that is
WWGS would not grow to dominate the hobby; T4 gives me hope that sf is
making a gaming comback at last.

- --Rich Ostorero
stormhvn@inreach.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 12:46:09 +0000
From: Andy Lilly <a.s.lilly@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Copyright on Traveller Materials

I have been asked to mention on the TML the subject of copyright.

It has been brought to my attention that one or more web sites are
presenting data copied, derived or in some cases expanded from previous
Traveller material, stretching back as far as the days of White Dwarf (when
it used to cover Traveller, etc.).

There is clearly no problem with people copying a few sentences verbatim, or
with making significant additions to such material.

HOWEVER, IT IS POLITE - IF NOT A LEGAL REQUIREMENT IN SOME INSTANCES - TO
QUOTE THE ORIGINAL SOURCE OF THE MATERIAL, INCLUDING THE AUTHOR(S).

I know we all love having web sites with as much stuff as possible on them,
but please remember to ask before using. This is particularly difficult when
a writer uses other people's work then submits it to someone else's web
page, but it is, in the end, the responsibility of the web page owner to
check that appropriate authors are credited.

Thank you.

Andy

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 07:55:05 -0500
From: rellio@po-box.mcgill.ca (Roderick Darroch Elliott)
Subject: Re: G-Comp

Eris Reddoch wrote:

>
>You know, I've thought about this aspect too.  On military ships, I can't
>see putting everything into one room.  I'd want several smaller power
>plants scattered around the ship, at least have a main and auxiliary engine
>room.  The drives should be as spread out as much as possible too...that's
>harder of course.  <g>
>
>Compare a Traveller ship to a major ship from the WWI/WWII era. Ships had
>multiple boilers driving multiple screws.  You could knock out one and the
>ship could keep limping along.  As long as a ship could keep one boiler
>running it had a *chance* to stay afloat and make repairs.
>
>Eris

        I agree with Eris on large enough ships having multiple power
plants: the 1000td TL-11 airframe disk megayacht (tentatively named the
"Caligula") I designed and whose deckplan I'm going to finish off once
exams are over has three fusion plants rather than just one, and I'm going
to be spacing the T-plates in a half-dozen locations in a circle around the
underside.

        Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy... redundancy, redundancy.

        Oh yes: the T-plates go on the underside, which means that up is
though the flat axis...  so with the TL-11 2g inertial comps running flat
out, it'll get the full 3g's out of its M-drive without inconveniencing its
passengers.

        Hm... maybe I should have put 4g plates on the puppy :).

        I think that I agree with Leonard on the orientation issue; unless
the function of the ship is such that it has to have down at right angles
to the M-drive's axis or suffer serious inconvenience, and/or the layout is
such that you have safety measures to prevent people falling long and hard
if you lose I-comp and the M-drive is so low-performance it doesn't matter
much anyhow, it'll be oriented vertically.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 08:05:16 -0500
From: sturm <sturm@tiac.net>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion (kinda long)

I guess there is a romantic side to me that see's Norris sweeping into
the core sectors and reuniting the Shattered Imperium.  I realize
logistically it would be a difficult task, but whose to say that Norris
couldn't ally with some of the other factions (Strephon, Margaret?) and
then make a concented drive to take out the 2 toughest factions (Dulinor
and Lucan).

Desperate times call for heroic measures, that's what great drama is
made of.

sturm@tiac.net


Rob Beck wrote:
> 
> At 11:17 PM 11/28/96 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >The Vargr are a big question mark though, but I think through a
> >judiciious use of military force and diplomacy (making agreements with
> >particular Vargr groups) Norris could keep the Vargr feuding amongst
> >themselves and neutralize them.
> 
> Norris really has little to offer the Vargr. We're left with the impression
> in Rebellion that it is all he can do to keep the corsairs out. I do agree
> that with the Aslan secured as an ally, and with a quick resolution with the
> Zhodani (we're not going to extend your way if you don't extend our way),
> Norris could have shifted his forces more to trailward. That and the fact
> that even concentrated corsair attacks are of little concern to dedicated
> fleet elements clearing a path. A return of a strong military presence to
> Corridor would be required, but if he had the forces...
> 
> >Norris also had an excellent Intelligence apparatus, so when the Regency
> >learned that the other factions were significantly weakened, Norris
> >could have led a spear head right to the core systems and with any luck
> >sweep aside the other weakened factions.  I also believe that the Moot
> >would look favorably at Norris, although the real power of the moot
> >should not be overestimated.
> 
> I still see where he's facing a potential two-front war assuming he can get
> past the Vilani. Assuming they don't stalemate with him and he does break
> out into the core sectors, he then has to contend with Dulinor AND Lucan.
> Both of them attacked Strephon when he laid his claim to restore the
> Imperium. Why wouldn't they both attack Norris? There's just a lot to
> overcome to even come close to restoring the Imperium. Even with Dulinor,
> Lucan, and the Vilani weakened, Norris would be fighting a multi-front war
> in devastated areas two or more sectors away from his home base. Seems like
> he'd be overextending himself a little much wouldn't you say?
> 
> Rob.
> 
>                          Robert Beck
>                          E-Mail: beck@mail.all-net.net
>                          Send E-Mail For My Public PGP Key.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 00:00:59 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #702

sturm wrote:

> I must say that I really disliked the whole Virus concept, I would have
> much rather seen the shattered Imperium united again (my personal
> favorite would have been Duke Norris...)

I found that the Imperium was just too big. Anything that could threaten
it had to be almost as big (the Zhodani, the Solomani etc). HUGE fleets
of HUGE ships. Massive travel times. There was also the fact that the
Imperium was no longer expanding, and that all of it's borders were
generally well explored. The scouts had become an internal survey and
messager service.
In order to find excitement my players generally ended up breaking the
law.
I ended up generating my own campaign backgrounds with much smaller
empires, federations etc.
This way I could bring the homeworlds of all thase interesting aliens
much closer. How can the K'kree threaten the Imperium if there border is
so far away that conflict is very unlikely.

The rebellion was a good thing (it made sense too). It broke the Empire
into smaller more manageable chunks. It was also beginning to make
travel an interesting prospect, with the UPP of worlds being different
than
what was in the library data. Makes it more exciting if the starport you
expected is just a radioactive crater.

By 1130 the map looked quite nice, I would have liked it to stay that
way for a while, with no one faction prevailing. Perhaps having them
evolve into nations with outward expanding frontiers.

I liked the virus idea, the R.C. was a great basis for exploratory
adventures, but if I was to choose a faction, it would have to be 
the Solomani.

Harry the Signatureless (still so lazy he cant be bothered to make one)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 00:11:33 -0800
From: Harry <paharris@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1996 #703

sturm wrote:
> ... Norris could have led a spear head right to the core systems and
>  with any luck sweep aside the other weakened factions. 

Why bother going to core? Make Mora the capital, that way it would be
damn tricky for the other factions to get at you.

------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 96 07:17:41 -0500
From: "Jeff Kazmierski" <odysseus@novia.net>
Subject: ABC's of the ABC

Buddy wrote:	
>Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1996 16:30:44 -0800
>From: Harald Budschedl <Harald.Budschedl@mag.linz.at>
>Subject: Re: Alien Builder's Charts v1.1 ( not so Long anymore)
>
>Jeff Kazmierski wrote:
>> 
>> This is the first rewrite of my original Alien Design System
>article.[snip]
>> If anyone has any further comments or additions, please let me
>know.[snipped the rest]
>
>Ehm --
>For which gamesystem did you make this? Rolls like "99" or "1d20+1" 
>aren't quite possible with six sided dice, are they?
>Maybe I have overseen something ...
>
>Buddy
>

Actually, the original article was aimed towards Traveller players, but I
suppose it could be used for just about any game system.  The charts are in
d100 format.

I toyed briefly with the idea of converting it to a "d66" system, to better
suit "real" Traveller players, but the mechanics were easier with d100.

Jeff
Naval Architect, Sophontologist, and Intelligence Analyst at Large
- ---------------------------------------------------------
                +
                |\        "Who the hell ate all my turkey?"  
                | )      /       
                | )       _      
       _        | )      /@
        \ ______|/______/
_________\ @@@@@@@@@@@@/__________odysseus@novia.net

Happy Thanksgiving, wherever you are.
- ---------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 15:37:38 GMT
From: sdollar@goodnet.com (Stuart L. Dollar)
Subject: MegaTraveller Auction #4

Hey gang!  I have the following Traveller/MegaTraveller books
available:

I have the following items available for auction.
(Condition:  5-Mint to 1-Poor)

GDW:
MegaTraveller:  Astrogators' Guide to the Diaspora Sector
Sector Map, UWP stats (MT & Hard Times Era) for Diaspora Sector
Condition: 3  (Wear on Spine) 
Minimum Bid: $3

MegaTraveller:  Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium
Condition: 4  (Slight Wear on Spine)
Current high bids:
$11 lynchblo@waikato.ac.nz
$10 hbill@primenet.com

MegaTraveller: Referee's Companion
Condition: 3 (Slight Wear on Spine, Bend on Front Cover) 
Minimum Bid: $8

MegaTraveller: Rebellion Sourcebook
Condition: 4 (Slight Wear on Spine)
$12 hbill@primenet.com

DGP:
Travellers' Digest #19:
Contains 2 Adventures, UWP Stats, Library Data & Sector Maps for Deneb
& Riftspan Reaches Sectors
Condition: 4 (Some Wear on Cover)
$5 earthshaker@datatek.com
$4 truestar@pipeline.com

The following are the auction rules:

1) Open bids will be accepted until Midnight MST on Saturday December
7, 1996.  

2)  Two (2) highest bidders as of above deadline will be contacted
individually on Sunday December 8th, and asked to submit a final bid.
They will have until December 10, 1996 Midnight (Tuesday) to submit
this final bid.

3)  Bids will be accepted in minimum increments of $1.  Please note
minimum bids being taken for all items.  Bids of $XX more than highest
bidder will be accepted only during the open bidding period, and will
only be effective for the current day's bidding.

4) Auction updates will be posted daily.

5) All costs do not include freight.

6)  IMPORTANT:  Save bandwidth, please send all bids by e-mail to:
sdollar@goodnet.com.

Stu

Stuart L. Dollar                         sdollar@goodnet.com
Official USENet Spokesperson for Imperium Games
- ------------------------------------------------------------
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."  -Thomas Jefferson

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 16:01:25 +0100
From: Jerome DARMONT <darmont@libd1.univ-bpclermont.fr>
Subject: Re: MegaTraveller Auction #4

At 15:37 29/11/96 GMT, Stuart L. Dollar wrote:

>6)  IMPORTANT:  Save bandwidth, please send all bids by e-mail to:
>sdollar@goodnet.com.

 What if you just stopped to spam the list each and every day with this?

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jerome DARMONT, LIMOS, Universite Blaise Pascal - Clermont-Ferrand II
darmont@libd1|2.univ-bpclermont.fr, oodbprjd@mailhost.ecn.uoknor.edu
http://lmiindy7.univ-bpclermont.fr/~darmont/

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 09:49:37 -0800
From: Glenn Hoppe <starcity@eagle.wbm.ca>
Subject: Re: The Rebellion

K.C. Komosky wrote:
> Well, I (obviously) disagree. While there certainly are differences between
> the two settings, I think the differences are what is superficial, and the
> similarity overwhelming.
> 
> I don't dispute word of what you wrote, but what real difference is it
> going to make to a Traveller player? None really.

Alrighty. That last line just forced me to respond. I take the exact
opposite view of what you say. The _similarities_ are superficial. In
fact, the only similarity I can think of is that both milieux have
interstellar societies that are trying to recontact isolated words and
build a larger society (read: empire). The differences are numerous, and
they are _not_ superficial, they _are_ going to be important to a
Traveller player-character.

M0: New tech devolps (fusion plus) helping to drive the rebuilding of
interstellar culture. The general attitude is favourable towards
technology, expansion and recontact. After the long night, in many but
not all cases, worlds are ready and willing to be recontacted. Nobility
is a strong unifying force.

Generalization: Diplomacy is more important than brute force in this
atmosphere.

M1200: Tech has been decimated. Levels are basically the same as M0,
except there are TL-15 relics scattered throughout space. General
attitude of the citizenry: Tech is evil, Tech is to be feared. TED's
oppress people. Nobility is reviled as the force which brought about the
destruction of the universe. Xenophobia is rampant.

Generalization: Diplomacy is impossible. The RC takes the view that
military action is necessary.

To illustrate my point, here's the typical M1200 "Star Viking"
player-character interacting with a civilian on a world in the wilds:

RC: We helped topple that Technologically Enhanced Dictator for you,
citizen. We will now assist in your rejoining the worlds of the New
Dawn.
Citizen: Forget it, bub. Just leave us alone. I'm not going to be a part
of your Lucanic empire.
RC: Don't you want to be a part of a vast and glorious empire rising out
of the ashes of the old? Don't you want the benefits advance technology
brings?
Citizen: I just want to tend my field and raise my family. Get the hell
off my planet. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go milk my grobilt.

And now a typical Sylean talking to Joe Average on a recontacted world:

Sylean: Heyyyy... nice planet. Listen! Why don't you join our glorious
new Imperium?
Citizen: They told us about that Imperium thing in Ancient History
class. Sounds kinda neat. But what's in it for me?
Sylean: Look, I got this. <whips out his Mr. Fusion+ (tm) portable
energy plant> Feed it some water, and get virtually unlimited energy!
Citizen: Coooool. I'm sick of refeulling my gravcar. My neighbor got one
of them Fusion+ thingies from a Trader. We can talk later about this
Imperium thing, but if you'll excuse me, the wife asked me to buy some
grobilt milk at the MiniMart.
- -- 
===== Glenn Hoppe =====\ /--- MailTo:jumpspace@geocities.com ----
\ . . Enter Jumpspace --X-> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8275 \
 ----------------------/ \========== Eschew Obfuscation ==========
     Examine what is said, not him who speaks. - Arab Proverb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1996 09:22:53 -0800
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <dberry@hooked.net>
Subject: RE: The Rebellion

At 12:06 AM 11/29/96 -0600, K.C. Komosky wrote:

>>I disagree. While superficially M0 and TNE are similiar in that an ongoing
>>theme is rebuilding, the atmosphere is vastly different. In M0, the
>>nobility is a significant factor, with a powerful interstellar government
>>already in place. In TNE, there is no interstellar nobility. Even in the
>>Regency, the one place in the Imperium not "collapsed" by Virus, the
>>nobility is _on the way out the door_. A second difference lies in the 
>time
>>frames of the Long Night (1700+ years) preceding M0 versus the 75-year
>>"Short Nap" between Viral Release and the New Era. A star nation can do a
>>lot of recovering in 1700 years . . . but the RC hasn't had 5% of that
>>amount of time. The Hiver intervention is making a big difference, though. 
>
>Well, I (obviously) disagree. While there certainly are differences between 
>the two settings, I think the differences are what is superficial, and the 
>similarity overwhelming.

On that theory you could say that the Napoleonic Wars and WWII were
viturally identical. Both featured short megalomanics who tried to invade
Russia and failed.

>I don't dispute word of what you wrote, but what real difference is it 
>going to make to a Traveller player? None really.

The difference is in the attitude.  TNE characters were rooting around for
the bits of high tech left untouched by Virus, seeing world after world
where untold billions had died, and still facing the threat that a Vampire
Fleet could destroy the whole thing.

Milieu: 0 is set at the dawn of a new age, when after two thousand years of
quiet mankind is stepping forth again.  The Scouts of the New Imperium
aren't going to have the 70-year old records the Star Vikings had, they'll
make do with rumor and legend, the merchants will be drooling over the new
markets, and the never-do-wells of 20 worlds will be heading for the
frontier as fast as they can to try to stake their fortune.

Remember that for the people of M:0, the Rule of Man is as remote as the
Roman Empire is to us today.  The odd ruin here and there, maybe a few
decaying orbital facilities, but for the most part, it has passed into myth.
How will people react when the PC's Type S burns down to land on Parliment's
front lawn to announce the Third Imperium?  Cheers?  A Parade?  Or perhaps a
lynch mob?  A lot can change in 1700 years.. A world that was once an
industrial giant may have been destroyed in a nuclears war, while what was a
small agricultural colony in -1776 might now be a TL11 industrial giant.

>FWIW, I'm glad MM didn't go back to  1115. Pretty much any of the other 
>Traveller settings have a certain, oh, I don't know, a certain excitement 
>to them that the original CT setting lacked. Of course, this is very, very 
>IMHO.

Someday, I'm going to start a campaign in 1104 and take all the way through
the 5th Frontier War.  Set in my favorite subsector (Lunion), I'll play up
the whole hightening of tensions, border incidents, and have the PC's Far
Trader a little to close to the Sword Worlds border when the hostilities
start...

+----------------------------------------------+
| Douglas E. Berry          dberry@hooked.net  |
|     Professional Driver - Traveller Guru     |
|   http://www.hooked.net/~dberry/index.htm    |
|**********************************************|
| "Well, I'm not Evil, I'm just good looking." |
|                                -Alice Cooper |
+----------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1996 #704
**********************************

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